A Murder of Crows With Mark Price

Mark Price is back, and we’re talking about everything from nervous system regulation to identity unraveling to why doing less might actually be the most radical thing you can do right now. We cover somatic work, Vedic meditation, the art of not spiraling during a stressful email exchange, and how to reclaim your time, attention, and sanity from systems that profit off your dysregulation. Plus: spontaneous joy, witchy-adjacent bird encounters, and a bibliomancy moment that delivers exactly the level of existential clarity you didn’t know you needed.

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Transcript

INTERVIEW

Julia 2:10

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, days and thems. Today I'm recording this opening monologue on May 30th, the one year anniversary of my dog Baxter's passing. You know, he was my husband's and my first child. He had a pituitary tumor that we treated with radiation. Thank goodness for pet insurance. And we thought we were in the clear, but he developed a brain bleed, and we had to put him down about six months later. That is all to say that today has been sad. And I've been thinking about him a lot. He spent the last two weeks of his life in the ICU where we did everything we could to keep him with us. And even now, as I reflect, I still judge myself, you know, wishing I had done something differently, wondering if I did enough. And if I let them, those thoughts and that grief can carry me into a very dark place. But with the approaching full moon, I'm working hard to release something. Not my grief, because holding on to it right now makes me feel closer to Baxter. But the should have, could have thoughts those need to go. So I started my day with a short gratitude list. I wrote down how grateful I am that Baxter chose me as his mama and that we had the means and the pet insurance to treat him. And then I spent some time just listening to the ocean, allowing myself a moment of stillness. And in that stillness, I realized I hadn't even known how sad and triggered I was until I found that quiet. I was able to cry a little bit, you know, to process. And it got me thinking about how sound is often my go-to when my nervous system feels like it's lit up like a Christmas tree. You know, I just have a sound, a few sounds that I work with that I really love. One of those is the ocean. And I put on my headphones and I practice in mindfulness and just find that stillness. The point of that is that I would not have known that about myself had I not worked with today's guest. Who is Mark Price? And he is a coach and teacher with over 25 years of experience helping people create lasting sustainable change from the inside out. His work lives at the intersection of somatic practice with nervous system regulations with meditation. He's also funny. And I'm so excited that he's here today. Hi, Mark. It's so good to see you. 

Mark 5:19

Hi, how are you? It's so good to see you. I'm so happy to be reconnected here.

Julia 5:24

I know. For everyone listening, this is Mark's second time here. He was on Truffling the Drain many eons ago. And we had discussed Vedic meditation. Today we're going to cover a little bit of that, but also just somatic response. We're going to get a nervous system regulation, all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And for my listeners, if my voice sounds extra salty, sultry and salty, I am salty, but sultry and sexy, it's because I'm getting over sinus infection. So you're welcome. Yes.

Mark 5:54

Yes. Um and listen, if my voice sounds a little congested, I mean, just the season is allergies, right? Yeah, you're in good company.

Julia 6:03

Appreciate that. All right, we're gonna dive right in. Mark, I'm gonna ask you to please state your name, your pronouns, your age, and what's keeping you up at night.

Mark 6:14

Oh my goodness. Okay, my name is Mark Price. Pronouns he, him, age. I always have to think about this. 52. I'm about to be 53. Look at you. Yeah, almost 53. Yeah. Oh gosh. What's keeping me up at night? Where are we headed? Where are we headed? That's the popular question.

Julia 6:37

Where are we headed?

Mark 6:38

Where are we headed? It is a choose your own adventure. So, you know, I think what keeps me up at night is like just flirting with possibility. What is possible right now? And like just fucking doubling down on that.

Julia 6:52

Yeah.

Mark 6:53

Like, because if you don't have a preference, someone else will. So, you know, there's a lot of chicken little syndrome right now. The sky is falling. And I think now's the time, you know, to really we talk a lot about like, you know, tearing stuff down, letting things fall apart, but we don't talk a lot about what do we want to build. So I like that approach. Yeah.

Julia 7:14

I've been thinking a lot about how. So when we're recording this, Artemis 2 just landed like last week. Yes. And that is one of the things that is kind of bringing me a lot of joy. And because it is this sort of unified, wonderful moment for humanity that feels so joyous. And I just keep coming back to that when I start to doom scroll and be I begin to lose my mind. But, you know, that idea, like we are building, there is, there are some good things. We just have to look for them and find that joy where we can.

Mark 7:50

I mean, I think about like, did we ever have like every single astronaut that was in a rocket ship prior? Were they all TED Talk speakers? Like, because I feel like we've been just getting the most inspirational commentary, you know, from their journey that has just been gas in the tank on so many levels.

Julia 8:13

Totally. And it just makes me think that we're all kind of in the same place. Like they're saying kind of they're they're checking all the boxes, they're pressing all the buttons, saying all the right things, starting with that moment when Trump called the space shuttle, and there was that huge moment of silence, and everybody, it was just like you know, everybody.

Mark 8:34

I was waiting, yes, I was waiting for like just a McDonald's Big Mac to float, you know, past the screen.

Julia 8:41

If only, if only someone would have been genius. Oh my god. If anyone's listening out there and you have the capabilities, please put that together and throw that up on TikTok or Insta or wherever, because that's amazing. Oh my goodness. All right. Before we digress or go tangential too much, where are you right now in the liminal space of aging and identity? And to give you context, it's kind of like what feels like it's ending or what feels like it's beginning or even emerging.

Mark 9:14

Yeah. Well, I'm a middle-aged gay man, so like there's so much that is ending, and I couldn't be more happier. Like, long gone are the days to have pressure to have like 0% body fat. Like, not that I kind of like fell into that, but I feel like it's kind of a subculture thing. And I think with with, you know, a lot of gay men middle-aged, you know, feel like they have an expiration date. And I think that is absolute fucking garbage.

Julia 9:46

Yeah.

Mark 9:47

Like just getting started. Like I'm just, I don't know how about you, but the older I get, the more exciting it is. Yeah. And like liminal states are where it's at. So, like, how much can we continue to let go? How much can we continue to just like let it die, let it go, you know, and and so that we can really discover like what we're stepping into. So for the first time in a long time, I feel like liminal states and I are like steadily dating. And it's like we're having like the best dates, we're having the best dinners, like we're we're just like nailing it. We're going to the opera, like it's it's everything. It it feels it feels incredibly resourceful.

Julia 10:37

Yeah. I yeah, I feel similarly, and I something that I love about this show so far. We're still in early stages, and you know, I'm not sure when this is going to air quite yet, but at this point, I recorded quite a few episodes. And the general feedback that I'm getting, which I'm so excited about, is that a lot of people are feeling that way. Like they really, the feedback I continue to get is I'm feeling more myself. I'm feeling like I can let go of things. I'm really kind of coming back to who the core, my core kind of like person, the core thing that I feel I've always been. I'm I I've said many times at this point, I feel like I am the most myself that I've ever been. I I'm also hearing from people, you know, that I I like myself right now more than I ever have, or maybe I never liked myself and now I love myself. I mean, this is the this is the the 50s that I want for people.

Mark 11:38

Oh gosh, yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. And I I hope more and more people can lean into that.

Julia 11:46

Same, same. That's what we're here for. To tell people that you can.

Mark 11:50

Thank God. Yeah. All the way in.

Julia 11:54

Oi. You work with nervous system regulation. Somatic, which we're going to get into, also Vedic meditation. Can you talk about what that actually means beyond the sort of buzzword version? Because there's a lot of like buzz right now about like nervous system regulation and you know what that means. Yeah. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about what exactly it is that you do and how all of that works.

Mark 12:19

I'll start by telling you what it isn't, which is it's not about feeling calm all the time. It's not about feeling like, you know, down, you know, like down regulated all the time. It's about relationships. You know, and I think about like what I what I do now, which is a combination of traditional coaching, meditation, working with the body, and also working with IRF, which is interrelationship focusing, which is basically a somatic model of a therapeutic model of parts work. And all of it, like all of it lies at the intersection of relationship. And I was just talking to someone right before this call. You know, we were talking about like people don't necessarily know when they're being lied to, but they know when they're being told the truth. And so I feel like a lot of what I do is creating the supportive conditions for people to find truth within themselves so that they can decide what they want to do moving forward with that truth. So there's so much conditioning that removes us to be in relationship with so many aspects, not only of our body, of our nervous system. You know, I can't tell you how many people that I work with, you know, trying to get them and a lot, honestly, a lot with men, like getting them back in touch with their emotions, getting them in touch with anger, getting them in touch with their sensitivity. There's so much possible when people access the full spectrum of their human condition. And that's the thing that I feel like lights me up the most.

Julia 13:59

Yeah, and I I like what you just said there about getting in touch with your anger, because I think a lot of people view this kind of work as calming, like it's always a calming experience. And as I know because I have worked with you, it isn't always that. Anger is important, and being able to observe and feel and understand it is important, especially during these times, because we have a lot to be angry about. But I think it's creating space to understand it better. Does that kind of sound like what it is?

Mark 14:36

Yeah, it's an it's employee, it's employing a compassionate lens of curiosity to build relationships with what's there rather than compartmentalize the parts of ourselves that we may not like and provide you know space for reintegration.

Julia 14:53

Yeah.

Mark 14:54

Because that's where that's at. Like, you know, anger is sacred. It could be so sacred, rage can be so sacred. And yet here we are, like, you know, in a world that tells us that that those things are are bad, you know, that they can be bad. So relationship is key. Relationship is everything.

Julia 15:16

Also, relationship to the others, keeping connection with our community, uh especially when things feel like they're exploding, and uh back to finding joy. Finding joy and relationship with the people that we are aligned with, I think it's also very healing.

Mark 15:35

Yeah.

Julia 15:36

And how do we begin to work with our nervous systems in a world that constantly feels like it's it's regulating us, where everything feels like it's exploding?

Mark 15:47

I think the first step is recognizing that's by design. There are companies that make billions of dollars by harvesting our our attention and our awareness. So our data. Like, you know, kudos to you. You discovered a flaw in the system, which is it only works unless it, you know, it has your consent or your permission. So I think that's the first thing is just recognizing like you're participating in a system that wasn't designed for you. You know, when you like casually scroll on Instagram when you're taking your bath at night, which is, you know, like what I do sometimes, I fall into that as well. Like you are participating in a system that is meant to dysregulate you. That is like straight up cold hard facts. So, you know, first things first, know what you want from the experience before you have the experience. Otherwise, the experience will have you. So I think that's thing number one. Thing number two is we could all benefit from reconnecting to a larger nervous system. Like, what is your environment like? What is your community like? What is what does your natural surroundings look like? Being able to actually have time that you are reconnecting to what it means to be an animal on this planet right now, not just like a hyper-productive, producing, achieving machine, you know, but like what is the relationship to your natural surroundings? What is your relationship to your community around you? Like, yeah, I mean, when I think about where we are and and the the, you know, at times it can feel just apocalyptic mess, it it all like it it changes in an instant when you prioritize connection with the self that's not disconnected from the world around you. So how does that look like? It's gonna look different for each person based on where they are. You know, some people have access and privilege to better surroundings than other people, but there's still a possibility of connection that I feel like hasn't been explored because of these weapons of mass distraction in our pockets that keep us tethered to a company that is making money off of that.

Julia 18:10

Yeah. So it sounds like part of it is just bringing awareness to what's distracting and ultimately disabling us.

Mark 18:19

Yeah, I had someone ask me a question the other day, like, you know, why should people meditate? You know, why why should everyone meditate? And I thought everyone doesn't need to meditate. But what they need is to cultivate the personal relationship with stillness. Like, what does that mean to each individual? You know, stillness, not like, you know, straitjacket or demimore and saying almost fire rocking in front of an open window with the curtains blowing, like stillness meaning you minus inputs. Yeah. So that's some of these, you know, like we're we're co-creating with natural intelligence all the time. We just don't really listen to it. So much can happen when we slow down. I'm a firm believer, like my business is based on the idea that slowing down is the precursor to change. Like, we don't have all the answers yet, but when we can slow down, we can have these micro moments of of stillness, something something arises, something evolves with a living forward energy as to okay, well, what is the next right step that I can participate in? I think that we need to be hyper-vigilant about protecting that.

Julia 19:42

Yeah.

Mark 19:43

Especially in today's world where you know, time and attention are our two most valuable assets, but we don't protect it. You know, that comes after the fact, after we've done the thing, after we've checked off the to-do list. And why? Because it doesn't feel attractive.

Julia 20:04

It doesn't feel like we're we're, you know, but I think that constant demand that we are constantly the pressure to produce.

Mark 20:12

Well, that really kind of is like the crux of the matter because that's the cultural conditioning. You don't, you're not entitled to anything unless you work your ass off for it, unless you like sacrifice, unless you like but that really is like internal power is the difference between power and force. You know, you can work really hard, override your capacity, and like get sick and get something done. Or you can sit with yourself and have these moments of stillness, have these moments in nature.

Julia 20:46

And stillness doesn't mean like literally being still, it can mean like active stillness for some people, you know, like taking a walk outside, especially for my neurodivergence folks, or you know, my new neurodivergent folks where uh I think like rocking or you know, who have to being still is rocking or tapping or patting, you know, like yeah, all of that.

Mark 21:08

Gorgeous, yeah, 100%. Yeah. I yeah, that's that's that's my go-to. My my you know, grandma walks around the neighborhood. That's like, you know, the thing that I protect, like that's the thing that allows me to sort of just kind of like drop in after I take my son to school and then just go and have that time to connect. So it's something that it's it's it's a lost art form because we've lost the ability to be bored.

Julia 21:40

Ugh so true. So true. What you just said, uh, it just really resonated with me because as I, you know, I'm getting over being sick, and my body, I was again like working my ass off, just go, go, go, go, go. And my body told me you need to sit the fuck down. It was like, since you haven't been listening to me, I'm gonna shut your ass down. Here we go. Like the body knows and it will speak if you are not listening. And so now I'm like, okay, okay, yeah. I'm gonna spend the weekend in bed because now I don't have a choice and that's what I need.

Mark 22:17

Yeah, yeah, 100%. The more you pay attention to that, you it's really hard to unsee something that you see. So you're able to like, you know, honor that more. The more that you listen to it, it's reciprocal.

Julia 22:31

Yeah. How do you help people create real lasting change in the middle of chaos rather than after it? So, kind of what we were continuing to talk about just now, you know, how does what does that look like if I were to work with you? Like, what would that be? What are some things?

Mark 22:49

We disrupt patterns.

Julia 22:50

Yeah.

Mark 22:51

Because that's what got you there in the first place. So, you know, I think first step is understanding that wellness, you know, like my definition of wellness is disruption. We're we're we're disrupting the patterns that have you know led you to being sick, stressed, overwhelmed, tired. We get you back to some of those natural rhythms internally. And the big one is we get you back in the driver's seat from a felt sense of agency. So from the body perspective, a felt sense of safety, because that's usually the thing that keeps the body spinning, is that it just doesn't feel safe. So that right there is the piece that have made companies billions and billions of dollars is that if I can keep you distracted, if I can keep you stressed out, then I know I can keep your cash flow coming my way.

Julia 23:43

Oh, yeah.

Mark 23:44

And safety is an interesting word. It's going to mean different things to different people based on their context, based on their, you know, their shaping throughout their development, based on their geographical location. So I'm I'm naming that safety, you know, can be a very nuanced word. But internally, when a body feels safe to come back into itself, when it feels like the the the edges of this is where my body ends and this is where the external environment begins, and I'm not in a free fall, that something powerful happens. Like there's a vitality, there is something that that that feels, you know, for lack of a better word, and not to sound cheesy, but alkalum.

Julia 24:34

I mean, you know, like yeah.

Mark 24:36

There there is something, there's an internal shift that leads back, that leads people back to an internal felt sense of agency. Yes. And because actually, you are already naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. Like everything's going to arise from you. We're just creating the right conditions for you to get back to that. Yeah. So it's it's pretty amazing to see what happens when people do take that back. Then all of a sudden it's like an immediate like bullshit detective. Things just fall away. And what feels important becomes glaringly obvious.

Julia 25:19

I had a moment last week that I want to share where I used a tool that you that you gave me in one of our sessions. You know, I was I was in the middle of an email exchange, and this email exchange was making my nervous system really like light the fuck up because it was, I was feeling wasn't feeling great about it. I'm not going to say too much, but I was angry, I was upset. I knew I was gonna not say the right thing and I needed to take a moment. And so it was about time to walk my dog. So I stood up, I left my computer, I put on my bird sounds because we've discovered that I connect well with the sound of birds. That's my thing. And so I put on my bird sounds, I took my dogs for a gorgeous walk for 30 minutes. I came back, I was calm, I responded, and it went much better than had I stayed there and continued to type, type, type, type, type. Yeah. So just an example for me of how much you've changed my life and how these tools have really impacted me for the better. And again, back to what I said, it's that opportunity to create space. I have agency over what is happening to me in my body in those moments.

Mark 26:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a two-part picture, what you just named. It is, you know, being able to change your environment, change your relationship, creating that felt sense of safety allowed you to reconnect back to a sense of agency. And therefore, you're able to detach from or get your hooks out of the story. So, you know, two things are gonna happen, which is just from that energetic shift, that person's gonna be less of an asshole, or you're gonna be less invested in the story around that scenario.

Julia 27:07

Yeah, the story. We have so many. We love to tell ourselves stories.

Mark 27:11

Well, and this is where like arts work comes into play too. Meaning, like we we tend to, you know, lead from different parts of ourselves, from you know, protectors or defenders, like, you know, not saying you are, but that's what I see in in leadership positions a lot of time, because especially like when people advance in leadership positions, they're they're leading in a vacuum. They don't have the supervisor connection that they had that felt so comforting. So therefore, they're often leading from a position of like defender or protector without even realizing it, you know? And, you know, it's it's it's interesting kind of getting people back in touch with that and and sort of building the relationship back with those aspects of personalities that show up in different scenarios. There's something magical that can happen where it just opens up to so much more possibility. And that's a somatic experience. You know, I studied traditional parts work for a while through the work of Richard Schwartz. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. But it wasn't until I found IRF of, you know, bringing it into the body where it actually made sense. Because then you're able to like sense that in real time. So I've noticed that even within myself. There are certain people, there are certain individuals that if I'm having experiences with, it's going to trigger a part of me that wants to come in and like, you know, either like take control or like, you know, kind of alpha that that situation where I don't need to. I just need to state my preference and stay connected to what is happening, you know, internally in that moment.

Julia 28:57

This is like speaking to me because this is what I'm dealing with right now. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I can't talk about it on the show. I'll tell you about it later. Yeah. Anyway. A lot of my listeners, surprise, surprise, are in midlife, which is basically one long identity unraveling, it feels like sometimes. Uh, from your perspective, what does it look like to consciously rebuild identity rather than just reacting to what's falling apart?

Mark 29:28

I think about the being rather than the doing. Who do you want to be versus what do you want to do? People make bucket lists, which I think are garbage. Like, but who do you want to be? Like, how do you want to show up? What is what is the what is the ideal experience in terms of the being-ness of it? Because if you're middle-aged, if you know, you've been in a job for a certain amount of years, you've had a handful of careers, by the time you get to middle age, you know, for some of us, there's a shift where I am so tired of all the doing. And I think that's probably the pivot. That's the fork in the road, where, you know, as you're approaching into this next chapter of your life, you know, what is the quality of experience versus the quantity of experience? So it's less about how much can I cram into a day in terms of like joyful things versus how do I want to be when I actually experience that? And what's different about that than it than it was, say, a year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, that feels like a lightning rod moment for me when I play with that. Because it's it's like immediately everything kind of it creates like a ripple of cohesion. Because when you are rooted in the beingness, you're rooted in the present moment. Where you're if you're rooted in the doingness, you are rooted in either past or future. It's all past or future-oriented. So the beingness is connected to your values. It is connected to how you want to show up, it is connected to personal preference for the type of experience that you're that you're wanting to have in that moment. It's not future-oriented. It's not like, okay, well, next week, you know, when I do that spin class or I do that whatever, or what, or I take that trip or whatever. It's right here, it's right now. And so for me, like that feels like very top of the mind, you know, moving into this next chapter is well, let's, you know, I'm all for for doing, but what is it? What does the being this look like?

Julia 31:56

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like had I not given that some thought, I don't think I would have had a career shift if I hadn't taken stock in that moment, you know, years ago. Something had to change. So, you know, you you brought up again the the word joy. We've we mentioned that a few times. And finding joy, I think, in the moment, there's this idea that joy, especially for marginalized people, isn't frivolous, right? It's actually an act of resistance. What does that look like in practice? And how do you access joy without bypassing what's hard or painful?

Mark 32:32

I think that's the myth. If I step out of anger, then I'm like, I'm just giving permission for it all to be completely fucked. Yeah. Joy is resistance. Joy is resistance. Oh my god. I mean, holy sipples. When you are in joy, you are out of the guise of dominance. It's hard to dominate someone, whether that's from a government perspective, whether that's from a systemic uh perspective, if someone is joyful. Like you talk about like people don't know when they're being lied to when they when they're being told the truth. Truth is joy, like joy is truth. It there's a vitality to it that is like unmistakable. You cannot fucking dominate me when I am in joy. Because I'm not in panic, I'm not in crisis, I'm not in fear, I'm not in overwhelm, I'm not in scrambling mode. So therefore, I am less impressionable of your agenda that you want to impose on me. And it's the most glorious middle finger that you can give.

Julia 33:49

Yeah.

Mark 33:50

It is an act of resistance that is so palpable. So, what does that look like? Like, start small. I think there's there's a a woman, gosh, I'm forgetting her name. She's a researcher and therapist. She has a book on it. I think it's called Tiny Joys, where that's it, you know, like that's it. It's like one to three expressions of of things that bring you joy. Not like I want a trip to Paris, but like this black cherry seltzer is like hashtag nailing it. It's rocking my world right now. Yeah. Or holy shit balls, like this flower that is this tulip, this like blood-red tulip that's blooming at the bottom of my stairs right now, is like hashtag everything. It's amazing. It's these tiny joys because we have the the problem with systems that were not created for our independence and thriving is that they they rob us of that. They rob us of an agency to to to access joy. And it reinforces that the negativity bias, right? Yeah, it reinforces the negativity bias. But thank goodness to neuroplasticity, like the the positive, the neural connections to strengthen how we experience joy, how small can joy be, right? Because also when we think about joy, we think about like I just need to be in joy all the time. Well, that's impossible. Good luck with that. And that's psychotic, right? But how small can it be? How can we like how can this moment with my son be so stupid and silly that we both like end up like I think about that all the time? Like, my son is probably the easiest outlet to experience joy, you know, like in in the moments when he's not having difficulty, like how stupid or silly can we make this experience? Or how can we just like maximize this experience or this this walk in the park or playing ball or watching a stupid show? Like, how much can we enjoy that together? So I think it starts with permission, really. Yeah, I think it starts with like giving yourself permission because it kind of feels like cheating. When things have sucked for so long, you kind of feel like you're cheating on yourself if you actually give yourself permission to joy. Reenvisioning new ways of being while working within broken systems.

Julia 36:31

Like 100%. You can be both, right? Like the world can be on fire, you can be doing whatever your part is that you're doing, and you can still find joy. It is okay to be both. It is okay to be worried and also to find joy, right?

Mark 36:47

Yeah, yeah. There is there is this, there is this woman who I'm I'm obsessed with. I'm looking.

Julia 36:56

You look, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna say uh what I was thinking of, and that while you're looking, and I I was gonna say that I always think of something that Dan Savage has said, and I'm probably not gonna get the quote right, but he basically was, you know, when he refers to the AIDS epidemic, which he you know lived through, right? Yeah, uh, you know, he always he the quote is something like, you know, we, you know, people were dying. We, you know, we protested during the day and we would dance all night. And I'm like, yes, like that is the energy. That is the energy.

MARK'S SPOOKY STORY

Mark 37:29

That's it. I mean, I think about like when I grew up, I grew up in Texas. The thing that was so life-giving growing up in a small town in Texas was the acts of queer joy, whether that was like sneaking into underage clubs, not to do drugs, but to like dance your ass off, you know, until wee hours of the morning and like going and sitting in a dentist until two in the morning drinking shitty coffee and like laughing your ass off. Like even into college, like when, you know, like me and my roommate, we would literally at like 12 o'clock at night, like get dressed up and drag and go do like impromptu photo shoots in the grocery store just because we were bored. And I think about like like that's what we that's what we need, yeah. Not the necessary necessarily impromptu photo shoots in in a grocery store, but but maybe that's what if that's your main go for it.

Julia 38:31

Yeah.

Mark 38:31

I would fully support that. But we need more random acts of joyful disruption.

Julia 38:38

Yes, joyful disruption. It's just like the, you know, the what do you call it? Like, oh geez, the brain. It's like my brain is sitting in a can of tomato soup. What do you think, you know, flash mob, same idea. Like if I my algorithm could just show me that all day, I'd be in much better condition. If Instagram showed me were different flash mobs, that's that's the energy I need. Like that random joy that yeah, yeah. It's funny because my next question for you was gonna be was gonna I was gonna ask you to kind of like recommend like one small thing that people could do, but I feel like you have already answered this question. But if you want to add to that, feel free.

Mark 39:22

Otherwise be bold about doing it and do it right now. Like as you're listening to this, like go walk to your favorite, you know, place, whether it's a park or whatever, like go, like do it, like practice the doing of the thing so that you can experience the being of the thing. Like that's that's that's what I would add to it, and don't make it a big deal. 

Julia 39:46

Because it's never gonna be the perfect time, it's never going to. Yeah, yes, yes, advice, best advice. Yes, Mark, we could talk all night, but you have a cutoff time, and I want to make sure I get you out of here. So we are going to move on to the part of this interview where you tell us a spooky story. And that spooky story, right, doesn't have to be a literal haunting haunting. We're just interested in the sort of high strange moments of maybe kismet eerie coincidences, or that one time you followed a gut feeling or an actual haunting that works too. So tell us your story.

Mark 40:25

I gotta say the first thing that came to mind was I went to New Orleans for the first time, I think like two summers ago.

Julia 40:35

That's where I had my 50th birthday.

Mark 40:37

Really? First of all, that place is magical. Like, holy moly. The food, the culture, like the the the intersection of culture alone, like it's one of those places, there's no other place like it in the world.

Julia 40:54

No other place. Go there if you haven't go.

Mark 40:56

First of all, like there, there's there's a tree there called the Tree of Life. It's like a 500-year-old tree, like a 20-minute ride outside of downtown New Orleans. Like, if you ever go to New Orleans, please go visit this tree. I literally went there and standing in front of it, I just immediately started weeping. This tree has so much knowledge, like everything vibrates with, you know, spirituality and magic there. It's it's pretty, it's pretty amazing. Okay, so my spooky story is I I was like up for the experience. I was there for a week working and I was like maximizing as much as I could. One day I went to the the Voodoo Museum, which is in a tiny little like, you know, tenement, you know, housing unit, very small. And you go in and, you know, you pay your ticket, you go behind the curtain, and you kind of go into these rooms. There's paintings, there's dioramas, there's there's statues, there's altars, there to different, you know, sort of saints and and gods and goddesses. And I went and there was one, I cannot remember the name of the the person, but it literally stopped me in my traps. There was like electricity flowing through my body. It just it literally took my breath away. And I like I found myself saying, What do you want? Like just out loud. Like I like immediately, like came out of my mouth, like, what do you want? And I just felt this energy, and I was there for probably like a couple of minutes, and then I I finished up quickly. It felt like a pretty disorienting experience. Wow. I walked out, and the woman was like, How how'd you like it? And I was like, There's some powerful energy. She's like, Oh yeah, you know, we we had to do some cleaning and some rearranging. So some of the altars and things got moved last night. So a couple of them are probably a little unhappy right now.

Julia 43:18

And I was like, Holy shh, you're like, that one over there, it's really unhappy.

Mark 43:23

I was like, you might want to go have a conversation with that one in the corner over there because yeah, things are not good in that corner. And she's like, she looked at me and she was like, Don't worry, it's only energy. Okay, fine.

Julia 43:37

I'm so New Orleans for someone to be like, Don't worry, it's only energy.

Mark 43:41

Don't worry, it's only energy. I was like, the fuck it is. I don't want to take anyone home with me. So I got back to my hotel and I shit you not. It's five minutes when I walked into the living room, which had like a big floor-to-ceiling window, a fucking huge crow came, flew, perched outside the window, looked directly at me like cog a couple of times, watched me for a couple of minutes and then flew away. From that point on, I was followed by crows. I shit you not, for about four months. Whoa, a murder of crows in New Orleans, a murder of crows in New Orleans when I got home, when I had to go on another business trip. I would be walking down the street and I would look up and there'd be like a gigantic crow, like like swirling over my head. It got to the point too where it was comical, and I'd be like, What do you want? What do you want from me? What do you want from me? Yeah. And I think I did some just research into the symbolism, and just, you know, it was a big signifier of beginnings and endings and and change points. And that definitely was a like a massive change point in my life, like two years ago, a change point in focus of career, what I was studying, what I wanted to facilitate for other people. And so I just took it as a sign that, you know. Like keep going. You're you're the right path. Like keep doing what you're doing. I never felt any weird energy like someone's gonna die soon. Yeah, I felt like you would know.

Julia 45:25

Yeah.

BIBLIOMANCY

Mark 45:26

I I would totally know. There was never a moment of panic. It was, it was almost like comical. Like, you know, these crows will not leave me alone. So it it was wild. That that was probably the spookiest, but also like not spooky. I feel like, you know, I kind of feel like Dr. Doodle at times. Like I feel like talk to nature. Talk I literally talk to trees. Like people think I'm crazy. Like some trees will stop me in my traps, but now I don't see it as wild or crazy. But at the time, it like I it rocked my world. I was like, holy shit. Because as soon as I left that museum, Crow just came and perched and looked at me right outside the window. And I was immediately like, I see you. I acknowledge you. I I support your intentions with love. May you go and love. May you go and like perfect.

Julia 46:19

That's exactly the right reaction, right? And then I mean, crows are so smart. I I really like one day, I just whenever like I retire, I just want to live in an old swampy house in the middle of like swampy Florida or something where I grew up. Yeah. And I just want to have a pet crow. That's all I want.

Mark 46:37

I love it.

Julia 46:38

And I want to be, I want to be very haunted and scary with my pet crows. Yes. Those are my vibes. Yes.

Mark 46:45

100%. I fully support that. 

Julia 46:47

So, Mark, before I let you go, we do have our bibliomancy section here, which is my between the lines. Now, this is where you are going to think of a question. You're going to hold that thought in your head. I'm going to choose a page out of one of my books, and I'm going to do your reading, and then you're going to tell me the question after, and we're going to discuss, you know, if it if it's if it calls, you know, calls to you. Now, I have two books for you to choose from. Ironically, one of them is a bird book. It's ornithography. So I've got my bird book.

Mark 47:19

Ooh.

Julia 47:20

Or my floriography, which is my flower book. Now, which would you prefer?

Mark 47:27

And it's spring. But let's go, let's go with the birds. Let's do the birds.

Julia 47:33

All right. Do you have your question? Yeah. Okay. 100%. I love this for you. We got the peacock.

Mark 47:49

Oh, yay.

Julia 47:51

The meaning of the peacock is reverence. The peacock, unlike the modest female pee hen. Pee hen, okay, again, pronunciation, whatever, is a showy and stately bird revered as sacred in a number of cultures. In the Middle Eastern Yazidi religion, Tewushi Melik, this is a this is Kurdish for peacock angel. Please, everyone, I don't say things right, so please don't come for me if I didn't say that right. Is the leader of God's seven angels. He is responsible for all that occurs in nature: the earth, sky, mountains, and sea. In ancient Greece, the peacock was sacred to Hera and pulled the goddess's chariot. The ancient Greeks who believed peacocks did not decay after death associated these birds with immortality. The Sanskrit word for peacock, Meyura, is associated with many Hindu gods. The peacock is also the national bird of India. That's interesting, which is its home country. In one legend, Indra, the Hindu god of rain, was fighting the demon Ravana. And when a peacock shielded him by hiding, uh a peacock shielded him by hiding him from view. To thank the bird, Indra gave him beautiful blue-green feathers. So I guess this is their origin of the peacock. All right, now tell me what your question was and tell me if that resonated.

Mark 49:15

Oh, good lord, yes. My question is where where are we headed? Where we had such a pivot point right now in society, as the culture, as a collective. And I love that answer. Reverence and also like the peacock leading the chariot. Was that correct? Yes. I think about oh my goodness. I think about the Gita, which I'm doing another deep dive into the Gita again right now. And just about, you know, Krishna being by Arjune's side, leading the chariot, which is the personification of divinity, you know, during times of what feels like hopelessness and and and and really just a reminder to go within for what those next right actions are. So Peacock, I did not know that the peacock was the national bird of India. That's fascinating.

Julia 50:12

Fascinating.

Mark 50:13

Yeah, yeah. But it certainly is a majestic bird. And just the whole idea of reverence, like, you know, these are unprecedented times, but we can show, you know, I think that's what we do. We show reverence for the destruction so that creation can happen again.

Julia 50:33

Yeah.

Mark 50:33

So it feels like just spot on for that question.

Julia 50:37

I would even add to something that I was thinking of is, you know, talking about joy as resistance. I talk about visibility as resistance and the peacock is visible. The peacock does not disappear. The peacock is out there showing itself. And I think that's such an important reminder for all of us that are on a particular side of things to remember that we do not disappear and we must stay visible. And that is also a form of activism. Yeah.

Mark 51:08

I love that. Yes, because the peacock is like, let me tell you who the fuck I am. Just like immediate feathers. Yes, 100%. So may we all be a little more daring and sort of showing who we are.

Julia 51:23

Agreed.

Mark 51:24

Yeah. Yeah.

Julia 51:25

Mark, it's that time. I'm getting you out perfectly on time. I know. This was so fun. And I'm so glad you hear you were here. Before I let you go, though, tell everybody how they can find you, where, all of that good stuff.

Mark 51:40

Yes. Thank you. Yeah. That's where you're finding me is alchemycollective.org. That's where you can sort of just get a sense of what I do coaching, meditation, working with the body. And to reach to me directly, hello at alchemycollective.org.

Julia 52:01

Awesome.

Mark 52:03

So yeah.

Julia 52:04

I will put all of that in the show notes. And Mark does private one-on-one. He does some group stuff. He does some corporate stuff. He does it all. So if you're interested in any of that, you should reach out to him and and get connected.

Mark 52:17

I'm literally about to go to China for a corporate sort of leadership training, which that feels like the adventure of the year. So that's gonna be wild. So super excited about that. Yeah. Yeah. It should be fun. It is such a joy to connect with you. I just love I'm I'm so grateful for you and what you do. So thank you.

Julia 52:43

I appreciate that. All right, thank you again, and I will talk to you later.

Mark 52:49

Okay.

Julia 53:01

Have a question or a spooky story? I want to hear it.